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Supreme Being
       
Group: Forum Members Last Login: Today @ 12:06:48 AM Posts: 78, Visits: 789 |
| | Congratulations to the Sydney Uni Cubs on their Championship win over the Bondi Storm. Well done all the players and the coaching staff. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 25/02/2010 10:04:45 AM Posts: 13, Visits: 347 |
| | In answer to the enquiry posted by Hektos to the Maxos on the previous page: Yes, in 1995 the Sydney Uni Cubs and the Sydney Uni Lions won the Junior and Senior NSWGFL titles. Both teams were coached by Andrew Ogborne. To date, that is the only year in which one club has won both titles. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 25/02/2010 10:04:45 AM Posts: 13, Visits: 347 |
| | I wish the Mustangs every success in attempting to rebuild their senior squad from their colts team. However, in my view they will have great difficulty in achieving this without a significant change to the current Gridiron NSW Colts competition. In my opinion, the under 18 age limit of the Colts competition is severely limiting the flow of Colts players up into the senior competition. There are two factors: first, the HSC and, second, the players' physical development. As to the first factor, most Colts players are in their HSC year when they are turning 18 and graduating from Colts. Understandably, many of them drop sport to concentrate on their studies for this year. Once they have left the game and are then joining new tertiary institutions or joining the workforce, it appears they lose their connection with their club and are lost to the game. The second factor is that most eighteen year olds graduating from Colts are not as physically or mentally mature as the players in the senior competition. While outstanding athletes can make the transition, it is clear that many are simply intimidated by the size and strength of senior players and decide to sit out for a few years until they can match it physically with the senior players. Again, once the player falls out of the system and out of the team that was supporting him, the reality is that he does not re-join when he is older and better equiped for senior football. It would be relatively simple to get some hard data on the problem. Gridiron NSW has access to the rosters of registered players for both the Colts and Division 1 for at least the last 5 years. I suggest that a simple study should be conducted to determine the percentage of registered Colts players who have gone on to register as a player in Division 1. I would be willing to undertake the task if the information was provided to me by Gridiron NSW. This "graduation rate" information could then be compared against the same information from the era when the Colts competion had an under 21 age limit. Although the league may not have the registered player rosters from this era, this calculation could certainly be performed at my Club from team rosters and, I would suggest, by other clubs which were around at the time. Although I have not actually done the exercise, I have no doubt that there was a vastly higher "graduation rate" at my Club when the Colts competition had an under 21 age limit than the rate since the under 18 age limit was introduced. Our current senior team is underpinned by a core of players who came through our Colts program from the u21 era; whereas, it is quite rare to get even a player or two from a graduating Colts class of 10 or 12 to come up to play in seniors in the current era. The Seahawks would seem to be a case in point. Five or so years back, they had a very strong junior program, winning the Colts competition for 4 straight years, with big numbers on their Colts squads. I do not pretend to have any inside knowledge of the Seahawks, but they do not seemed to have reaped the rewards in their Division 1 team from all that hard work and all those good Colts players. Where have the players gone? My guess is that, for the reasons outlined above, most of them just drifted away from the game. This is my major concern. Every team is expending a huge amount of effort in running Colts programs with very little return to the Division 1 teams. I fear that the Mustangs may get very little senior player return on their investment in Colts. I appreciate that there are other issues involved: particularly, the fact that the age limit for the Gridiron Australia Junior Nationals is under 18. However, an under 18 team could still be selected and trained for the Nationals notwithstanding that the Gridiron NSW Colts competition had a higher age limit. I realise this is really a Colts issue, but as the Mustangs are hoping to rise again on the back of their Colts team, I though it was worthwhile raising it in this forum as a point of discussion. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 3/09/2010 5:59:05 PM Posts: 36, Visits: 164 |
| This is something I have realized for quite a while now. I can tell you exactly what the numbers are in terms of graduation to Senior football from Junior football at my club.
Since 2003, when the last age restriction change was made, the Seahawks have fielded 59 different players in its colts teams who are now eligible for Senior football. For this coming 2009 Senior football season, of those 59 players, there will be 10 on the active roster. This year we will graduate 1 out of a possible 6.
As was pointed out, the ability to graduate immediately at age 18 is compromised for various reasons. I would add three more to the list.
One; there is a low allegiance level with the vast majority of players in our sport as they did not grow up with it. This means that all of the listed reasons for stopping participation become more permanent due to interest that was not deeply ingrained in the player in the first place.
The second reason is that while friday night football I think is a great success for the Colts competition in itself, it is a poor feeder to Senior football in terms of time consistency. The proportion of players at my club who work on saturdays is extremely high and they start doing this straight after or during school. It means that football loses out at that crucial crossover time from Youth to Senior football.
The third more minor reason is that its more expensive to play Senior football than Colts football, players have to become more independently wealthy at this cross over time.
The 1 in 6 graduation rate I dare say is even lower at other clubs. I look at a club like the Lions and their Championship streak seems very heavy on pre-2003 Colt team players, more recent veteran conversions of other sports, refugees from other teams, ex patriot US players and some older long career veterans. I'd be surprised to learn that there was many post 2003 Colt players on their roster or any other roster in the league for that matter.
In 2002, the league had an U/18 6 man Junior competition plus a 9 man U/21 Colts competition and Senior football. It was unsustainable, it exhausted our coaching, field, officiating and equipment resources. From an age structure point of view I think it made a lot of sense however.
One simple change to consider would be adding a year to the Colts age threshold. Interestingly the original change to U/18 bracket was in order to align Internationally with IFAF northern hemisphere countries. Since 2003 however Australia has played very little International youth football, in fact, the 2008 development tour played a Junior College team, not a high school team. Add to that, the Junior World Cup just past allowed for players turning 19 in 2009.
Quoting the notified age standards, "The age of the junior world cup for 2009 will be players must be a {original grammer included} minimum of 17 years of age by the 31st of December of 2009 and a maximum of 19 years of age as of December 31st of 2009. Players who turn 20 during 2009 will not be eligible to participate in the Qualification games or the world cup."
I'm not sure if this age change would solve the problem at all or if these problems are much more deeply rooted, like many in the sport. The prospect of change is always daunting, sometimes being a small sport I can see the advantage of flexibility, other times I see us as being vunerable.
Whatever happens would have to be considered on a national level. There is a consensus now amongst the states to have consensus on these issues.
In the past I have made the comparison to a species whose breeding numbers are so low that it cannot ever apprehend its landscape. That's our sport. we have now lost a team, down from 8 to 7. In 2000 we had 11. Our better teams now are better but there seems to be a tendency in our league since 2000 for consolidation, not all round growth. Teams fold, their best players go and fortify another club. The Jags and Redbacks folding fortified the Lions enormously, UTS is about to be fortified by ex Raider players. Lost in this fortification is the failure of Junior Development in our sport.
Just enough to keep things going.
TheEverlastingGodStopper |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 3:26:50 PM Posts: 58, Visits: 227 |
| Andrew would be the best man for the exact numbers (I'd trust him over myself any day!) but I would suggest that our numbers are even worse than yours in the graduation rate stakes. Although our teams have had different paths this century, the results from colts are the same.
I have spoken to three other Colts coaches (I won't name them, as it may have been off the record), and they have had similar sentiments. Surely if that many teams are seeing the same results, we can do something to address the situation?
Do you mind copy/pasting your reply over on the NSW 2009 thread? It may drum up some more support. Now is the time to get this changed for the league's future.
I enjoy coaching colts (and hope the Lions let me continue to), but we all need to be aware of the purpose of colts- to provide a breeding ground for young athletes that will come and play Division 1 football when they graduate. International competition is fantastic, but considering the sport isn't thriving here at the moment, perhaps we should look at strengthening the competition (back to previous levels) before we look overseas. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 2/01/2010 1:39:17 AM Posts: 4, Visits: 11 |
| | Hey Raiders - As the Colts competition is for players under 18 years old, maybe it might be an idea to change your website message calling for players who are "18 years or under" to play for your Colts team. It would not seem to make sense to call for ineligible players. Just saying. Also, isn't it about time you stopped living in the past and removed your claims about winning a "record five straight championships" on the website. That record was busted two years ago. Just saying. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: Yesterday @ 12:22:04 AM Posts: 45, Visits: 254 |
| | UTS forever, I am pretty sure that the Colts competition is for players who are aged 18 and under. EG, if you turn 19 during the calendar year of 2010 then you are too old to play Colts. |
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Group: Forum Members Last Login: 2/01/2010 1:39:17 AM Posts: 4, Visits: 11 |
| | Rock, you are right about the age limit. If you turn 19 in 2010 then you are too old for Colts. My point was that the Raiders had posted the message on their website (calling for players 18 and under) for about the last 3 months of 2009. So any player who was already 18 in those last months of 2009 would be turning 19 in 2010 and, therefore, be ineligible to play. Now that the calendar has ticked over and we are in 2010, the Raiders message will start to be correct, but only for those people turning 18 after 1 January 2010. You see my point? |
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